This post is specifically directed to Malaysian Students who are studying in Egypt. It should be read by all the members. Please copy paste or forward or link this website to all the students. Any other medical students across the world are invited to have a glimpse on what is actually happening. Any inquiries can be directed to me at faizalbobby(at)yahoo.com
This FAQ is made on June 26th 2010 and applicable for the time being unless there is any change made in the future by the Malaysian Ministry of Health (MOH). Stay updated.
What is elective posting@ attachment?
It is a medical elective training in health institution all over the world. These students can work closely with the healthcare professionals in Malaysia and have an opportunity to enhance their knowledge and skills. The clinical experience is usually very rich and is different from what is obtained in a hospital in the western world.
My perspective: medical training and learning about everything in the healthcare institutions. Everything from the basic history taking until the medical procedures with the doctors, nurses or even medical attendants.
Why should students apply for it?
It is currently an issue in Malaysia about Egypt Graduates. Are we competent? That’s the issue. Based on the previous batches since nineteen seventies, some healthcare professionals admitted that we have the strength in the medical theory but severe lack of clinical skills.
Some students are excellent and some student aren’t. Continuous assessments are being brought by MOH to monitor the progress of the Egypt graduates so that we will meet the world standard of medical practice.
Each university in Egypt produces at least 1500 medical doctors annually. The gigantic number of students in each year doesn’t permit the university to form a smaller group of students to apply bed-side teaching. Thus the clinical training somehow is inadequate for the students. That is why the university permits the students to make elective posting in order to compensate the weakness.
In Egypt, housemanship period (internship) is a period of learning and working. They even have lectures in the schedule. In contrary, Malaysia’s housemanship period is a period of working. No more formal learning. That is why housemen in Malaysia are continuously being penalized if she or he doesn’t meet the high standard of MOH.
Egypt graduates apparently are not the worst because there are still graduates from other countries who are incompetent. But I don’t want any further bad reputation regarding Egypt medical students. We should be the best!
Is it compulsory?
NO, it isn’t. If you don’t want to be smashed directly on your face due to lack of clinical skills, make it compulsory for yourself.
I am a first year medical student, can I apply?
Everyone can, but some hospitals prefer the clinical year students. Thus in that case try to apply for district hospitals, clinics, or try to attach with the seniors.
We did it last year, but we are just like unemployed workers, what should we do?
Put in your mind every worker in the hospital is busy. There would be no one who can focus on you all the time. I really mean it. This situation can always turn down the interest of the students. For me, to rectify that weakness, we must always be proactive, the key words are : know their names, smile at them, approach them, observe, ask them, or even help them. Try to take history from the patients, talk with the patient and the healthworkers there. READ THE PATIENTS'S FILES ON THE TABLE TO KNOW WHAT ARE THEIR DISEASES. If you are not proactive, you will find yourself in the middle of nowhere. That's why I've said only the proactive people survive. No one will spoonfeed you, even me.
Do you mean , we are not competent enough?
Theoretically yes for the mumtaz holders but clinically not for all the students.
Who can apply and who cannot apply?
CAN:
Medical students from these health institutions http://mmc.gov.my/v1/docs/Jadual%20Kedua%2011-12-09.pdf
CANNOT:
1.Students from unrecognized Institutions
2. Person who is already graduated from the university.
~~see, not everyone can~~
Is it legally allowed to do so?
Yes. "Pekeliling" is attached with the application form below.
Are JPA and MARA responsible for it?
Not at all, they are only responsible for the scholarships.
Which hospital can we apply?
You can apply for any hospital, clinics of Malaysian MOH. You can browse here http://www.moh.gov.my/gov_hospitals
I strongly do not suggest the students to make any elective posting in private institution because you cannot even touch the patient. Basically learn nothing.
What are the procedures?
By email (very fast)
1.Find the health institution you are interested to make the elective posting. Browse the procedure of elective posting if available. Big hospitals should have it. Find any email of the admin and note the address.
2.Download this application letter, print and fill it.
3.Obtain the syahadah from the college . Syahadah is the letter from the Dean of Students Affairs certifying that you are a medical student from your college. REMEMBER TO ASK THE LETTER IN ENGLISH, NOT ARABIC. Due to some technical problems especially the management of Ain Syams University, I heard that students can request the letter from JPA in the embassy. Kindly ask him because I haven’t tried it before.
4. Make a copy of your Malaysian ID.
5. Download this application form, print it, and fill it.
6. Your photo (IC standard)-name tag purpose.
7. After you’ve completed performing all these things. Scan :
Application letter
Syahadah (in English)
Malaysian ID
Your photo
8. I strongly suggest that all the documents should be in PDF format (thus you need Adobe Acrobat Pro Extended, so download any pdf converter from the internet), if you are too lazy to do so, just send them in jpeg format and you will find yourself waiting for too long because of the big size of the files. Send all these documents to the hospital that you want to apply.
By post:
Send all these documents by post. It takes time to arrive of course.
By hand:
1.You can directly go to the administration of the hospital and send these files directly.
2. Please bear in mind, if you are using this method, the application form will be provided by the hospital, thus you don’t need to download and submit it. Small hospitals or clinics do not have this application form, thus you still have to download and submit it.
Which department is suggested?
For preclinical students, i suggest you to attach at Medical Department but you can also simply attach to other departments as well. For clinical students, attach to any department that you wish, but i strongly suggest Accident and Emergency Department (A&E or ED) because you will learn so many valuable things as long as you can be emotionless all the time in order to manage the patients.
Is everyone accepted? How do we know?
Not everyone. It depends on the vacancies. If there are too many students doing elective posting in the same department at the same time, they will put you into another available department. If all the departments are occupied, they will turn down your request. There are so many medical students from other countries doing the same elective posting as well.
The result of application will be informed after 1 week usually by mail, email, or telephone. Make sure you have the management office telephone number so that you can follow up your request.
I suggest you to go during Ramadhan. The hospital is completely empty of students and you can do almost everything!
Do we need malpractice insurance?
You don’t need to unless you are applying elective posting in other countries such as UK or Canada.
How much does it cost?
It should be free. If you are applying hospital universities in which you request to be involved with the students, they will provide the facilities and thus you have to pay the fees. Ask the university directly.
What is the syllabus?
Download this file. I did my best to include almost everything. This is my hard work. Print and check whether you have completed all this clinical skills or not. Muhasabah yourself and start doing the elective right now! If the management officer or the doctors ask what do you want to learn, provide this document. It really helps!
How long is the posting?
Minimum 3 weeks for each department and maximum 6 weeks per year. Thus 2 departments every year with 3 week-rotation for each.
It starts from 9 am until 5 pm formally. Most of the indolent students leave the hospital by noon. If you are proactive enough and would like to benefit most, come at 6 am and stay until night in the hospital. I love to do so because too much I can learn. Grand ward round which involves the consultant usually takes place on Friday(may vary). Don’t miss it!!
Is there any assessment?
No formal assessment. You will be asked by the doctors and specialists to measure your knowledge gap. No stress, medical students are forgiven.!!
Is there any agent who can manage the students systematically?
There is no such an agent because MOH forbid the agent to do so. If you hear about them, just ignore, those are liars.
Any future idea?
If I have the authority, I want to make the elective posting compulsory for all the students. I don’t have the power now but in the future insyaAllah I will. If the readers have the authority, please make something! We want to produce the quality graduates from Egypt.
Do I have to come in group or individually?
Up to you. If your friends cannot make it, so make it individually. Be a Survivor!! Don’t wait for anyone, and do not delay success!!
What should we wear during the elective posting?
Wear your labcoat.
For boys wear formal shirt with tie, leather shoes . NO casual shirt please. Cut your long hair! Be smart.
Girls: formal outfit
What should we bring during the elective posting?
Stethoscope of course, note book, pen, your reference books such as Macleod clinical examination, it depends on your apartment i.e bring surgery book to surgical department.
Is there any allowance for us?
No, use your pocket money.
Email me at faizalbobby(at)yahoo.com for any inquiries. I will not reply to stupid questions. Thus make a research in the internet first before you jump on me.
Good luck. Thank you.
You have read it, now can you forward it? thank you in advance.
